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when I quit I make a point he never said he's one of us in court never ever let's go the Christians say he never said Bethel school which we were trying to kill him yeah that's it we don't try to make that allegation you choose the Jews and where was Jesus response to that then complete complete the story what was Jesus response to that remember he said that God Himself calls the Jewish elders gods in Psalms and all I say is I am the son of God so he never claims to be God but he claims to be the son son in the fact that he did he's a righteous person he never ever claims to be under person called ever he refutes the allegation so I don't believe what the Jewish allegation is that's what you're doing you're doing instead of believing Jesus you're believing the Jews yeah I forgive you he says your sins are forgiven that forgiving in the public say why you you mixed up you mix up two different passages listen listen my friend when he said your sins are forgiven listen listen to this when he says your sins are forgiven he didn't say I forgive your sins while you have to go I've been called but they're giving a science that have devolved it said that he was given authority he says everything I say I hear from the one who sent me so when he said your sins are forgiven he's basically getting the information for his God yeah but you are if you have to go yet – not yet next come on congratulations you're coming to the bright side when you say the Holy Spirit is feminine I think that is linguistically because I Bacall so in America angels the term maniacae is a feminine what what the gender of their actual worry say of the the spirits are sorry the Angels themselves but it is the term the word itself I don't think we have this concept in English so it's quite difficult to understand that in in French they have this so a chair and a table they to understand that all the languages do have this so I don't think in that sense the Holy Spirit is feminine as gender wise but linguistically yes you I'm right the term Roja or real is feminine in that sense you yeah because I would confuse the first time when he told me the only spirit is female I said nope so now understand where you coming from is the linguistic rather than the technical aspect of them yeah also in Greek is feminine isn't it its nature yeah because I have a neutral gender but you've seen Arabic barinova neutral they don't have an it in Arabic so in I think in Semitic languages it's either he or she depending on the actual object that is defining the Holy Spirit angel Gabriel so in that case I do believe yes well you believe Holy Spirit is God what is what is the father is he not a spirit yeah so is he not considered holy yeah so he's a holy spirit – yeah but you do you believe the Holy Spirit that we're talking about is a separate entity from the Father now is the wisdom of God as a power how is how does the spirit come into that the wisdom in the power spirit is normally the essence but you gotta be careful to interpret Scripture because wisdom dwells with prudence you have to understand that the sonification that's why the Christian is now taking this concept of the word so in the beginning Court had a plan in the council he decided the Messiah was going to come in the beginning in the beginning existed the notion that please God so they have to believe in the pre-existence otherwise ever but then there are verses in the Bible which says that there are people who were pre-existence like was Jeremiah someone God knew in before the wall exactly yes so there are many people who did exist which means that God had already created the souls before that they were actually given birth but we will love them the foundation of the world came about already in the mind the Gazeta would be happy yeah this is a problem when you're trying to interpret it's not even the mind of God it's more like their creation as a soul because you know before at least the Muslims we believe that everyone who existed on earth physically the ology they all existed before as salts and then God God actually puts them in their bodies when they were born so we existed before but not before we want to be existed with God all the time since eternity long he created our souls itself so every one soul is created including that of Adam and Jesus because in the Quran Allah says in surah al-e-imran chapter 3 for the 59 of me that the example of Jesus is like that of Adam if God wants something to come into existence all he has to say he gives a command and that's where the word comes first of all you know when he says in the beginning was the word that's where the word comes a strong in the beginning was the command of God through which Jesus became flesh very easy to understand but try to understand the concept in the beginning was the word what is word man where does not comes out from your mouth isn't it the way they try to somehow substitute that with Jesus the word itself is a command of body and that makes more sense you know in the beginning is in the beginning we begin the business there was a command by that command he came into existence degrees yeah but even they had logos it doesn't have the translation it just as the word one of these meanings is also the command the spoken word yes so these things are the logos but then they always try to substitute the logos with Jesus all the time look at every doctrine in Christianity there's something or the other which is incoherent like I don't know do you guys believe in the original sin doctrine you do so you believe all babies are born sinners I was born with an inherent nature no that's different so potential to sin is different from sin so yes we all have potential to say I'm not saying no that's one of the original doctrine is those of sin doctrine is the sin actually was inherited by humanity through Adam but one man sinned and that wasn't justice attention infants Oh because Jesus himself saw it oh Jesus Adam himself as a potential descent yes otherwise you ended up cut the fruit the forbidden fruit if you didn't have the potential how could you have picked the Forbidden Forest so before you before you even ate he already committed the crime the same you see what I mean yeah so which means by logic yes like a baby is not going to be held responsible there comes a point in time when our baby grows up yeah and they can discern between and that is using that's a very Slovak perspective well you just said that because a baby I will say is born in sin yes everyone has the potential to send you that's that's true but I wouldn't call that a sinner until they actually acted on it knowingly knowingly that's very important because there are many people who don't know what they are doing they might be I don't know they might have some mental issues so they won't be held accountable in the same way that you and I will be given much is required if God is giving you revelation and so I wouldn't say anyone is born with the negative account so no one is born with sin already inherited from the parents it's more like they have the humanity which is basically what gives them the potential and the free will to do good and bad but you and Adam had that from the very beginning even nature intrinsically is not cuffed so when you're born you're born pure I wouldn't call the potential to do something wrong as corrupting the corruption only occurs when you act upon that so obviously God is not created you as a Brobot he's given you freedom so with that free will you have the choice to act upon evil or upon good and God has left us without guidance is given as the Scriptures he sent prophets hundreds of them thousands of them over the time and every nation has been given a property and they all had the ability to either choose what the Prophet said or to disobey the Prophet that means you're disobeying God basically and that way you have been guided but then you choose to remain in the sin you chose the simple no God had told you the consequences of that as well so whose fault it is at the end of the day the one who made the choice and that is man really because Muslims believe that if they can only do if it's the will of God everything is with the real on so everything happens with the permission of God says it so then but then the choice is still made by us no one is forcing you to really because we don't get a choice out of it because like for example if I told you that without God's permission you wouldn't be speaking to me now but is anyone forcing you to speak to me still within that free will if anyone says that I'm being forced then yes they can have a point but no man who believes that even with the predestination that God has predestined you with even with that you cannot say I'm being forced to do what I'm doing you feel free to exercise your will for whereas in my musician right at least within your ability you can do that yeah so no one is saying that even you yourself cannot say that you are being forced to do what you're doing the choices you make are yours out of your own volition your own freedom people are destined for hell they can't hope they can't help but just do the things that are gonna lead them because they know the consequences of their evil deeds did God not run them in the scriptures what is going to happen if they disobey you did they not chose themselves to act upon those things like gambling like fornication like all the battles because God is good as predestined a prophet no no you're misunderstanding do you know it so you see if you don't know that no one is forcing you on the day of judgment your mouths will be sealed and your hands will speak and your feet will speak God will give them the ability to speak and to testify against you all for you so it won't be it won't be your tongue speaking that day it'll be your own lips we should speak on that day and God will then say is this worried I've done it confirm from you and you will have no way to denied because it is like somebody recording your entire life history yes and then they show you a movie for everything you have done and then even the best that you've forgotten you'll remember yes I've done this I've done this I'm so by yourself you'll be giving testimony against yourself yes this isn't surah yaseen where your limbs will speak as a testimony against you so there you go there's no way out because like I said everything you do you know you're doing it consciously yeah whether it's good or bad you do both of them you're doing it consciously and you know in your heart of hearts so even an atheist who doesn't believe in God he knows when he's doing something wrong like he's stealing from someone or telling a lie even or even murdering someone they know in the heart that this is wrong they don't need a scripture so certain things are from the filtra from this from the already say from from your own inclination from your own natural disposition you know certain things are wrong because this is what is approved many people give as the existence of the divine existence of God oh do you know somebody keeps doing something wrong yes going over again they can very good point at you so when you do it the first time your conscience will tell you know it's wrong you do the second time the conscience is still strong selling you know you have you have lied again you have stolen again that is wrong boundary but then as we said if you keep doing that this your fitrah your conscience gets blurred into a point when it completely becomes so dark there you now it doesn't even seem to bother you at all it becomes like second nature to your stealing that's the reason I say that this thing would eat all the the ocean sin is it would be unfair and unjust of God to to basically give sorry to bring someone into existence with a negative record that means they already are carrying the parents in with them that doesn't happen and that is something which God doesn't I don't the night you never the nation is human it is the human nature ability to do root right and wrong you have a parent that's addicted to drugs yeah they give birth to a child medically speaking that addiction can pass but that's somewhat with it that's nothing to do with sin that is to do with what do you say yes it's an illness let's call it an illness because there are genetic diseases Gennadiy illnesses and it can get passed on from the parent to the child now this do the doctors tell you to take drugs when you're pregnant do they tell you to drink alcohol when you're pregnant obviously they don't what then is that child is facing the consequences not because of their choice I agree because they'll come up yes I agree and on the day of judgment that child will answer on the day of judgment accordingly so if it is not the child's fault and they somehow I don't have become drug addicts because of the parents you know most of the time I think it is the nurturer rather than how we were born so it is how in what environment you are so if you live amongst our colleagues you're more likely to become an alcoholic if you live amongst Joerg addicts you're more likely to become a drug addict if you live amongst people who are good and work fine and environment nature rather than the nature over there which is it is the nature of the child not be in a nation so anger is not something will inhabit it is an a it's the nature of the people around you which influences you which is absolutely truth if you be amongst if you go to a shop which sells perfume you'll learn more likely to absorb the good sense but if you are going to go and visit a blacksmith you most like to better suit as well on your on your clothes so yeah your friends your environment specifically in today's social media the things that you watch the things that you acquaint yourself with you know there are people who will just play games I don't know all day and they only talk to people within that game environment so they only get exposed to that most of the time in the in the youth so when they go out they defined it very difficult to interact with people who don't know them so there are many people who tell me or have you have you watched Game of Thrones and I go no and I think that is something bad like you must have what are you you're living in a cave no I just don't find it interesting to watch those things sell a certain thing maybe other things that I was they don't find interesting you know so yeah your your environment your friends so permission is basically breaking the or disobeying God – its what is a most basic definition so if God has and that – knowingly so if you do it something unintentionally for example if you have in Ramadan yeah we are we are told to fast if we are able to fast we are not sick or we are not traveling in those cases you exempt it you have to make up for my for another day but while you're not doing any such thing that then you have the ability and the help to do it and you don't fast then you are accountable so you'll be yeah you'll be selling basically if you don't fast however if I while I'm fasting because it's a first day of Ramadan and I forget and I eat during lunch time yes maybe I take a few bites and then I realize that oh I have actually eaten when I shouldn't be eating because it's Ramadan in that case you're forgiven yes so Allah will not Allah will not hold you accountable for that in fact there's a hadith which says that this food came from Allah so Allah fed you basically because you have done it unintentionally so it's always the intention yeah so basically you are told to continue your boss not to break it so you were told to continue because what you did there was unintentional so if you are sending with Adam we believe that Adam he did not eat of that forbidden fruit intentionally because Allah says in in the Quran that it is out of his forgetfulness then he basically yes Adam and Eve both of them is out of the out of the forgetfulness that they actually fell into that transgression that they were told not to eat of the forbidden fruit and they forgot such a way to cause that's that's a biblical narrative now listen to the quranic when the brothers say both of you did not not only that not only that but actually what happened was because of their forgetfulness even after that immediately Adam Adam Le Salam he asked God for forgiveness yes he asked him for forgiveness and God forgives him so while they are in paradise they're forgiven before they're sent to earth now listen to this many people are under the assumption that Adam and Eve were basically thrown out of paradise because of their sin no this was already plan of Allah because Allah says I will send before Adam was created he says I will create a man I will create a wise giant on earth I will create a talita on earth and this is talking about Adam so before he was even created God had already destined him to go to earth and this is 40 years before he was created 40 years before Soham comes then he feel it was distant so if we didn't eat from that even that was destined well it's because Allah he knows the future let's call it that in sloppy we say because he knows the past and the future we say in the future he's already knew what you have done is what he made him to do it he had the choice you told him not chatter but he saw that what he's all about in the future so doesn't matter with Allah we don't believe in this concept of time so Allah does in the past present future for him it's different it's for us human beings to relate to trance alive when he went to see dr. moon to her and he saw you know what's gonna happen in the future and stuff so there is more time basically yeah so you see the different narratives so in Christianity you believe according to the Bible biblical narrative that he was basically thrown out because of his sin but no in Islam he was already forgiven before he was sent to earth and the sending up to old was already predestined forty years before he was created so this was a really plan of Allah basically in this in the sense that these things will happen and this would be the consequence of contradiction the Bible's a much later on in the sense so it came before but we don't know what happened to the true message so as a Muslim I will say that it has been corrupted somewhere down the line so you still have remnants of many things which are almost same as the Quran but then the Quran is a moment it is a guardian over the previous revelation so whatever inconsistencies or whatever narratives which are different it corrects them many things you will see even many historical mistakes that are in the Bible he's been commended remember when Jesus came what did he say yes Jesus came and he said those guys who are telling you the Pharisees yes they're telling you these things but that's not true what I'm saying is the truth because Jesus was given the specific knowledge of the Torah and the previous messages the previous scriptures you will not find anywhere in there where God says that I will preserve it until the end of time or whatever yes so those messages were actually time bound so for example Moses when he came even the Shema that he says yes he says hear o Israel yes Shema Israel yes Adonai elohenu Adonai so he's actually God's works what does that mean that means God's words will always be there so we believe in something called a force where all of the scriptures already originally and these will remain as preserved in those tablets that includes the Quran that includes the Kaurava in jail and all the previous scriptures which came so those will be preserved but also in if you read in posit term Jeremiah 8 it raises the line scribes will actually change we the line pens will alter them the meanings and alter the scriptures and change the scriptures that is also then the Old Testament we show that what was revealed through the profits over time gets corrupted because it is time-bound remember Moses I said the Shema he's at because insulting her as being from the dogs or something like that if he was she already had pain that's the reason she comes to him so he says rabbi this helped my daughter and she's literally begging him but he Jesus insults are basically saying I do not cause the bread of the children to the dogs there is no need for him if his message was for everyone but because his message was specifically for this four nights for the Bani Israel for the children of Israel that is the reason he wanted nothing to do with anyone else so the miracles the message the teaching all that was for the Bennets were not for the other people at that time however that is the the biblical narrative yes all the other people who said that this is now universal everyone because Jesus even said do not go into the into the dwellings of the Gentiles and that is very specific both those commands are very specific so any will be digress we were about the oil symbol and that is the reason I don't believe that the original sin is something that as a sin you don't inherit from a parents all the inheritors of your humanity of course we know that if we are born to human parents will be humans forgiving humanity no we were not meant to be perfect only God is perfect remember surely a horrific bot would want his creature to be perfect why why does the future have to be like when you invent a red board so you don't say you don't want your roadwork to be just like you so you're saying the movie goes to heaven we're not gonna be burning so we've got to say even and have them like we've so got to pretend you talk up again no once your guy dies exactly sorry if you're talking about once you the reason you are entered into paradise or health that is after the judgment okay after the judgment has already taken place so once the judgment has taken place then yes you have perfectly in the sense as a human yes but you're still not perfect as God but God can never be equal to any of his creation as Allah says in the Quran when Jesus says big potential husband a father is perfect you missed as your heavenly Father is perfect yeah what does that mean means in the message that it may be given I don't it might have some deeper meaning but you can never it be equal to God the Father never suggested the king should sign his courage yes even the characters given the character and the attributes of God are far different to that in terms of the degree so the love that God shows you can never show that long the kindness and the merci gracias you can never show that even then because go because you can only give out what you will see yeah but what I'm saying is that we are to God just like Jesus he reflected in nature there was so much of God in him they reflected no he didn't because Jesus actually liked

42 thoughts on “P1 Nurture Rather Than Nature – Hashim Vs Christian Hyde Park Speakers Corner

  1. To Chris
    When you are talking about the "WILL" of God, you are mixing two different concepts. The "WILL" of God is the ultimate FORCE behind everything that is created and un-created. One aspect of it, are those things that you have NO CONTROL over like weather patterns, accidents, being born to a specific situation, and the like. The other is the ABILITY to act out your intentions. So the fact that you live in the parameters of the "WILL" indicates that without God's WILL you CANNOT do anything you INTEND. IF you decide to eat food you would NOT be able to eat without GOD actually Willing it. We express this as God ALLOWING it. Otherwise you cannot even lift a finger.
    Salam/Peace

  2. May god guide these brothers in humanity. So much respect for the guy with the hat, faith in his god yet not blind following Paul and the church. Fitra and aql in action 🙂

  3. Every point the Christian raises is refuted. But all of this is not about winning or losing arguments, it's all about what the truth is. And then whether or not to embrace that truth.

  4. Jesus never said I'm the truth and the way to the father. John the one who said that and the funny thing he dreamt about that and it wasn't in the real life. Also Jesus himself self said.
    (John 5:31)If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
    If his testimony about himself is not true then he isn't the truth.

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